Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby deltic009 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:50 pm

Have you experienced a lot of crashing with TSW? Despite my system being below adequate one thing it hasn't done is crash out on me at all.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby Mainline421 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:00 am

Easilyconfused wrote:As noted above the manual is on the Steam store page albeit only 29 pages long.

Having noted that it is interesting that another weekend purchase (Civilisation VI) also comes with no manual apart from the one on the Steam Store page so maybe this is a new trend? The Civ VI manual is far more weighty at 191 pages through so that will have to wait until I get to work tomorrow to print that out.

There is something about having a paper manual in your hand where you can scribble notes on the margins that I like.

There's a manual in the box.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby haddock1000 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:44 am

I'm pretty sure that all the code is new from scratch, with the exception of the UE4 game engine.

thanks,

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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby AndiS on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:43 am

This is the old misconception by people who do not create software themselves. It is a long way from the idea to a finished program.

Badly oversimplifying, I would say that there is design and there is implementation. First, you need an idea how stuff should work. How exactly are you going to represent all the things that happen in a steamer? You will end up with a bunch of differential equations or other mathematical description to describe the physical processes that take place there.

That is the design, not the code. Kuju obviously based the design of the RW steamers on that of the MSTS ones. They stripped a few details and added others in. That is normal progress in engineering. Now you can call the result good or bad, that is for each one to decide. But when people said (back then) that Kuju stole code from MSTS it was simply nonsense. The company just happened to have the design for steam physics in their archives and so they undusted that.

In a second step, you implement the design using some programming language. The fancy boxes in SimuGraph as well as those in the material graph can be considered as a programming language - or a mathematical description - if you like. It is all terminology.

The differences in the fundamental set-up between RW scripts that are called when controller settings change, or on elapse of an unspecified time interval, and the boxes in UE4 that get fed with new data behind the scenes is big enough to make automatic conversion a joke. Sure you can map a Lua "if" statement to a UE4 "if" box (whatever its name be). But that is barely half of the job. And the structure of the output of automatic conversions is always abysmal.

There is a third thing and that is the priority list. Obviously the same company created both products using the same priority list. In the DTG content creation process, occlusion maps must be the last thing on the list. And it seems to get dropped at times. Regarding AI and signalling, I guess we can only analyse stuff when the development tools are available.

However at this time at which half the people roar about performance, I would not expect many programmers working on the AI. But then again, they are a large team. At any rate, I would not rule out the possibility that some content creator currently sits and puts in occlusion object and a few other things that they skipped when they struggled to get the thing released.

There is a lot of wait and see in much of my typing. I just can't help it.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby gptech on Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:37 pm

Personally I'm disgusted by DTG...we've had the game 5 whole days (!! 5 !!) and not yet even a whiff of some UK diesels, steamers and half a dozen routes to run 'em on...
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby SamYeager270 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:44 pm

gptech wrote:Personally I'm disgusted by DTG...we've had the game 5 whole days (!! 5 !!) and not yet even a whiff of some UK diesels, steamers and half a dozen routes to run 'em on...


LOL, good try but where's all the angry and vomit emoticons that should sprinkled all over your post?
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby AndiS on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:53 pm

Wait, it's because they are reading the forums very well. Someone developed the interesting theory in some other thread that it is hilarious to come up with a new game when they still have not covered all of the UK mainline. At least one major London terminus was missing. Regarding the rest the thread was a bit inconclusive and it seems to me that no one has a real overview of what was modelled.

But certainly the content team in in the back rooms muttering "must model Liverpool Street" or whatever it was. At any rate, they are not allowed to release TSW stuff before finishing their homework for RW.

P.S.: No vomit emoticon on this forum. Only one for the thing you do before. The plot thickens! Isn't the owner of this forum somehow affiliated with the project manager or lead developer or whatever of this TSW? I feel censored without the right to vomit! Sort of.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby Thugsy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:28 pm

So far I have completed a coupled of 'Services' (badly - well down on the schedule :-? ) and most of the tutorials. My view is 'It's OK'. At £19.99 I don't regret buying it and it certainly at times feels a bit like World of Subways meets TS2017 - which is not necessarily a bad thing. People have talked a lot about performance, framerates etc. Bit disappointing so far - let's hope it gets better - I have done some tweaking to make it acceptable. But as has also been pointed out the manual is a little scarce on detail so it is not always easy to know what you are changing (eg: if I turn down effects is that graphics quality, quality of light/rain, sound, physics ?).

With TS20xx my main pleasure in truth is in writing scenarios using real WTTs and as accurate a set of stock etc I can so in theory TSW without the ability (currently) to do that should be a complete turn off. However the choice of route is quite canny and I like the Services mode idea and given it comes with effectively a days timetable built on for a route that I have sketchy reference material for then I am very happy with that. As far as I can tell the CSX trains they have put in seem to be accurate (in terms of Symbols and end points) so a big thumbs up from me for that. Would probably view a UK route differently but happy with this one. All of that said I also can't imagine how this would perform on a busy multi track route.

But the biggest thing for me coming as I am sure many did from MSTS (with which I was very happy in my ignorance until something new came along) and then Railworks/TS20xx, is that this time it does not feel like the game changer that Rail Simulator (as I think TS20xx was called at first) was. Despite the money and time invested in MSTS I almost ditched it overnight. Not only can I not afford to do all that again with the move to TSW - in all honesty I still think TS20xx is pretty damn good. I imagine I will be very selective in any add ons (if at all) I will spend on TSW. I am also looking at it and thinking I would probably have been happy to have had the Sand Patch Grade in TS2017 and never has TSW.

So for now I think I will be mainly using TS2017 and dipping into TSW as I do from time to time with WOS. And I'm happy with that.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby mearle73 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:26 pm

I like TSW a lot,its got some problems having just said that "Unreal process has crashed:UE4 TS2 prototype "oh well its been quite well behaved, when the game is optimised better and the tools are available I think it will be outstanding.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby david1 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:33 pm

markjudith wrote:No tunnel occlusion, same as early railworksNo occlusion under bridges, so it rains inside, same as early railworksParticle collision effects (smoke goes through solid objects) same as early railworksAI trains running into player train, same as early railworksSub par sounds especially horns, same as early railworksPoor performance on many high end machines, same as early railworksPhysics not reflective of real life, same as early railworksSignals at red for no apparent reason, same as early railworksNo children characters, same as early Railworks but what characters exist are much better.


Missing out some of the basic things that we have on TS is a bit poor, we had the same with TS no working headlights on train but we had on MSTS, the new sim should have all the features we have in TS, missing out basic things like no dark tunnels, smoke still going through bridges should have been changes to act more real and the exhaust from locos is still poor looking at screen shots, we have better exhaust on enhance models in TS, Physics was poor in the beta, has this been addressed in the launch version? If not this is basic stuff, these details should have been done before swinging air pipe on locomotives that in most case you would not even view.

People say you always get problems with new software, it will get fixed, some might but most will not it seems to be the DTG way, looks at the problems with TS a lot of problems have existed since the beginning. Why did DTG pick this route to launch with? American routes are less demanding, maybe a true test might have been a busy London route, once we get UK routes we will get more problems showing through as they are more demanding.

AndiS wrote:This is the old misconception by people who do not create software themselves. It is a long way from the idea to a finished program.


That all depends on the developer look at some of the stock for TS class 91 & 150/1 compared to that of class 90 & 205.

Maybe we could also have a thread on here that only has all the good points on TSW and no negative points. Hopefully then me and other people might want to have this in a couple of years time.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby gptech on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 pm

Negative points are fine, but they carry more weight when posted by someone who is using the software rather than making claims based on screenshots.
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby PaulH2 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 pm

I have probably about 3 hours of gameplay so far, so not as much as many, but enough to have some initial thoughts.

I'll preface this by saying I've never really been able to get into US freight operations, despite having lived over here almost 15 years. So, I didn't really buy TSW for enjoyment per se, more to see what the new engine offers and to support development. So I won't really comment in detail on operational interest, other than a couple of general points.

Performance (9/10):
Personally I haven't had any performance issues having run TSW on two systems - my laptop (5th gen i7 with a GTX980M at 1920x1080 resolution and all settings on ultra) and my desktop (6th gen i7, 2xGTX980Ti in SLI (which I know the Unreal engine won't use, so basically only a single card) running at 4096x2160 with everything set to ultra). Everything is very smooth with no stuttering at all. My only observations would be two-fold; TSW seems to be very GPU intensive even when paused, I left it on pause on my laptop for about 15 minutes and it was running pretty hot. Second, leaving TSW paused for any length of time caused performance problems (I left it paused for about 2 hours, came back and it was an unplayable slide-show).

Graphics (7/10):
Generally, the graphics are a step up from Train Simulator, though there a few niggles. Anti-aliasing is still poorly implemented and looks blurry no matter the setting (other than off). There is some flickering of textures in the distance (at first sight, very reminiscent of the z-fighting Train Simulator suffers, but it seems to be limited to more distant scenery and is so less obvious). Telegraph wires look pretty rough, they fade in and out with distance, even at 4k resolution (this may be related to the anti-aliasing, which I'm not convinced is working as intended). Lighting, to my eyes, looks a little flat and washed out, but its a new engine and I may just need to get used to it (and this may be configurable / tweakable). Overall, it looks good, for me not a huge step-change over recent high-quality Train Simulator routes, but there is a lot of detail. Track to scenery edges are a huge improvement, and the skies look much better.

Gameplay (8/10):
I really like the tutorial system, its very effective and nicely done. The new HUD is also great, a massive improvement. The HUD could use a speed limit / signal display, similar to that in Train Simulator (or, personally, better yet like the old mini-HUD in Rail Simulator), but on the supplied route, that's not too important. My only issue is that I can't get the in-cab touch screens to work (for example the tutorial where you set the slow speed, I just can't get that to work on either of my systems, there's either something up with the interface, or I'm doing something wrong, which isn't good in a tutorial!).

The "out of cab" experience is kind of a novelty, but one that's already grown old for me. While it's neat to a point, personally I think it's also a bit unrealistic (isn't that why there are two people in the cab, so the driver doesn't have to do EVERYTHING?) It would be nice if either the second man (whatever the correct term is) got off his backside, or there was an option to just skip external activities, personally I would find it more enjoyable. It's nice, and its original, but sometimes I'd like to be able to just skip it...

Sound (7/10):
I haven't had a chance to play in surround or with my headphones, so I'm only using monitor or laptop speakers, but so far, generally I'd say sound is a minor improvement over Train Simulator, but nothing to write home about.

Overall (8/10):
I think its a great start, certainly much more complete than Rail Simulator was back in the day. There are a few niggles, and areas for improvement, and I'd certainly like to see UK routes and stock to really capture my interest. I don't regret my purchase at all, and I think the future is bright. It will be interesting to see what the developer tools look like, and I'd like to see a timescale for that sooner rather than later, as that is really going to hold things back. I'm also curious whether content development for TSW will realistically be within the grasp of the enthusiastic amateur, or if it will be practically limited to professionals (given the level of detail required).

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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby GavNormandale on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:16 pm

PaulH2 wrote: The HUD could use a speed limit / signal display, similar to that in Train Simulator (or, personally, better yet like the old mini-HUD in Rail Simulator), but on the supplied route, that's not too important.

Paul


Have you tried CTRL-4, you can bring them onto the HUD there, not the same as TS but good enough for me, far better than the intrusive tags that are default

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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby PaulH2 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:46 pm

GavNormandale wrote:
PaulH2 wrote: The HUD could use a speed limit / signal display, similar to that in Train Simulator (or, personally, better yet like the old mini-HUD in Rail Simulator), but on the supplied route, that's not too important.

Paul


Have you tried CTRL-4, you can bring them onto the HUD there, not the same as TS but good enough for me, far better than the intrusive tags that are default

Gav

I haven't tried that Gav, I'll give it a go. Thanks for the tip!
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Re: Honest opinion and a couple of questions.

Postby ashgray on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:56 pm

Paul - You don't NEED to get up, out of the cab and walk down the line to switch points - you can do this from the 2D map view if you prefer.

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