openBVE New Program Version

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openBVE New Program Version

Postby BVECOLORADO on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:07 pm

New version of the openBVE program dated 5 March 2017
http://obts.wikia.com/OBTS_Wiki#OBTS_Programs_.26_Documents

BC
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby BVECOLORADO on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:47 pm

Chris Lees (Leezer3) has posted developing program versions after March 5,
but in those recent later versions, Chris seems to be experimenting with how the the Horn\Klaxon sounds are played,
resulting in the Bell sound\wav on American trains not playing correctly.

In all the legacy American trains, the Bell is assigned in Sound.cfg to [Horn] Music, and in the March 5 and earlier version
is "toggled" On\Off by a NumPad- press and release, so that it plays continually in a loop without having to hold down NumPad-.
This toggle On\Off key behavior is consistent with the Bell button on real American locomotives,
which does not need to be held down to have the Bell sound continuously, it's "press & release" to toggle On\Off as needed.

Todays March 19 developing program version requires NumPad- be held down to have the Bell sound continuosly or to be off.
Is this a conflict between how real British\European and American\Japanese train sound operate?

Chris, please consider reverting the Sound.cfg [Horn] Music behavior to how it has been in openBVE\BVE4\BVE2 versions March 5 and before,
so the many legacy American trains will continue to have correct Bell behavior along with your program improvements.
Perhaps add a 4th Horn sound assignment that has the behavior you are seeking?

Food for thought.
Thanks,
BC
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby leezer3 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:40 am

Hmm, you've discovered another bit of somewhat inconsistent legacy behavior....
The most recent few builds have been involved in extending the horn sounds, and additionally in 'correcting' the behavior so that it's consistent with the developer documentation;
When something is discovered that's broken in several ways, sometimes a compromise has to be made in order to fix these issues.

Onto the case at hand:
If you hold down any horn key in 1.4.3 or previous versions, you'll find that the sound triggers repeatedly, producing a rather stuttering sound.
With the music horn, depending on how long the key was held down for, the sound either carried on repeating or stopped.

Michelle's developer documentation for the music horn states the following:
Music = FileName
Played in a loop when the music horn is applied.


The current behaviour is now consistent with that, and would appear to be 'correct' for physical trains which use an air-horn.

I'll need to check BVE4's behavior and make a decision as to what to do with this one, although my initial instinct is to add an additional [Bell] section to give the behavior you desire.

Edit:
That's interesting....
BVE4 definitely loops the sound until the key is pressed again, however it also has the same stuttering behavior on all horns. This is inconsistant with the documentation, which states that the primary and secondary horn will be played once when the appropriate horn is applied.
Eliminating the stuttering behavior is IMHO definitely worthwhile, but something will have to be done about the way musichorn loops. Let me think about it....
Chris Lees

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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby leezer3 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:50 pm

I've just added an errata note documenting the current state of affairs and my reasoning:
https://github.com/leezer3/OpenBVE/wiki ... n-behavior

The music horn behaviour is subject to discussion/ change at this point.
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby BVECOLORADO on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:10 pm

CHRIS:
As always, thanks for your extensive time and efforts on improving the openBVE program.

"Music = FileName
Played in a loop when the music horn is applied."
is already consistent with what I've experienced with this sound, both in old BVE and openBVE thru March 5.
Consider Michelle's documentation: it is certainly more extensive than that by Mackoy for BVE, but was never truely complete or totally accurate.
I read your errata, and am still slightly confounded in your reasoning for the horn\music sound change.
Are you possibly making trouble\confusion where there was none?
Adding Start\Loop\End options for all 3 horn sounds, while interesting, seems overkill for little gain, and has serious potential to make legacy trains incompatible.
I'd encourage you to consider holding off and put these improvements in a future configuration format (Sound.HTML?) that may be in the roadmap,
and graciously leave Sound.cfg as it has been for years to be superceded by the new file, keeping legacy addons fully compatibility.

Considering BVE history, program behavior likely varies notably with PC hardware, operating system, and detailed edit of the wav file.
FYI, to be consistent with the Michelle sound spec, I've a habit of converting wav files to
SignedPulseCodeModulated
16Bit
22kHertz
Mono

More Food For Thought.
Thanks again,
BC
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby leezer3 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 pm

My reasoning is as follows:
Primary & Secondary horns

Michelle's documentation states that they should trigger once when the key is pressed, and not repeat.
This would appear to be logical to me.

Instead, the sound was started once a frame, leading to the start of the sound 'stuttering' until the key was released, at which point the end of the sound played.
I can't see any reasonable use for this; Whilst it produces a repeating effect of a sort, this varies by machine (The length of sound played before it is restarted will depend on the framerate) and very often sounds bad.

Music horn
The intention for this depends on how you interpret the word when.
It could mean one of two things-
1. Playing for the entire time the key is held down.
2. Toggles the music horn on an off.
The other two horns use 'when applied' to mean whilst the key is held down, and that would appear to be the correct interpretation to me.

On my machine, tapping the music horn key briefly *does not* cause the sound to toggle; Whether this happens depends on how long the key is held for, and the current framerate.
This is horribly inconsistant....

Current Changes in behaviour for UNMODIFIED legacy trains
  • The primary and secondary horn sounds will play once whilst the key is held down. If the key is released and re-pressed the sound will repeat.
  • The music horn will play whilst the key is held down, and not toggle. (Whether it toggled depended on the PC in use....)

IMHO the first is a definite improvement, but the second is up for debate.
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby BVECOLORADO on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm

CHRIS:
Again, suggesting such improvements be in a new configuration (Sound.HTML?), and leave old Sound.Cfg as was for legacy compatibility.
May be best to sleep on this for a few nights.
Thanks
BC
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Re: openBVE New Program Version

Postby BVECOLORADO on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 am

CHRIS:
Just now downloaded and did a quick test of todays latest program.
The Horn Primary and Secondary work as they always have.
The Horn Music does not "Toggle On \ Toggle Off" with the NumPad- key as it did before.
Here is the train I'm using for testing your Horn sound changes:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ydgy3imykhhwqyk/OBTS_Train_2003.xCCx%7ELDxx.AARx_1m435%7E0022m63_EMxx.SD70%7ERioG.zip

This trains Primary=KlaxonShort=[Enter], Secondary=KlaxonLong=[NumPad+], and Music=Bell=[NumPad-] are typical on American BVE\oBVE locomotives.
Be sure to press [PgUp} to start the diesel to get this train to move.

FYI, the Bell Button must be "Toggle On \ Toggle Off" to comply with legal rules by
AmericanAssociatedRailways(AAR)
FederalRailwayAdministration(FRA)
AmericanPassengerTransitAdministration(APTA\AmTrak)
so a driver has free hands for more critical controls and keeps the bell ringing when moving near passengers or personnel outside the train.

Thanks again.
BC
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